Early Islam and Queer
Did you know that Islam in its early years was not only supportive of same-sex relationships, but also encouraged them?
Muhammed’s army of young men was built on the notion of brotherly love and bonding. The camaraderie was intense and Muhammad often gave instructions for soldiers to be buried in pairs. According to Ibn Kathir, “he would join in the same grave two men who had been close friends.” It’s quite likely that many (most?) of these men buried together were lovers.
To learn more about early Islam’s tolerance of homosexuality and the role of “queer” behavior in that society, click here.
April 21st, 2007 at 3:31 pm
There is no doubt a lot of “queer” history and famous homoerotic relationships in the islamic world (abu nuwas is a good example for instance)
But this specific piece of history seems to me like “popular science”
A lot is being said but without any (or few) sources mentioned or no actual research in the subject.
The article you link to for instance, mentions eunuchs/mukhannathun as people who were either castrated or not castrated but without heterosexual desire. Thus implying that they were either castrated or just gay. Thereby forgetting that there is another “class” besides heterosexuals or homosexuals. In a lot of old societies, people were well aware of the fact that there were a-sexuals. People with no sexual desire at all. This article seems to forget that.
April 21st, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Thanks BO18 for your careful reading. I mean, seriously, we all have to take a close look at the information we’re getting and decide “what’s what” for ourselves. I think that what Matt might have been trying to get at is that the current uproar about homosexuality by religious fundamentalists of all types is relative…that in a different time and place man on man action wasn’t so taboo. We could go on and on about the causes of this but I’m working on a post (you’ll see it on MEP at some point) that ponders the idea that the problem isn’t about being gay per se but rather the disruption of social norms and male-centered power structure.
One of the things I want to move away from on this site (for my part - Matt is his own man) is the US/THEM comparisons. I mean, the US with all its democracy and freedom of religion is no bastion of liberalism and pride flag waving support. We can’t point to Middle Eastern cultures and say, “shame on you” while people are being bashed every day in every city in every state of the US.
April 21st, 2007 at 8:13 pm
I am not certain I can disagree with you more and a deeper more philosophical way. I think it is great that there are even differences between states here in the USA. I live in NJ, I have certain rights and privileges that my neighbors across the way do not have (and they pay more taxes for it). This is a fundamental application of market forces that people refuse to engage seriously. I will be more concrete: if you live in a hate state like Colorado or Utah and you want to be liberated and marry your boyfriend come live in NJ. I propose and support this kind of market force based population movement.
But if I am going to be able to make these kinds of comparisons and therefore decide where I am going to live and which type of society I wish to help foster, I have to be able to make judgments about which place is morally, economically, socially, etc… right for me. Moreover, and what is MORE important, I have to be willing to tolerate a little un-pc dialog to get at the base of these differences with my peers. Because I am certainly not going to get this kind of information from sanitized mainstream media.
To this post in particular, I don’t care is Allah himself is gay. The fact is that Muslim Law and Muslim nations are fundamentally hate fueled - they are all about the NO. This is also true of fundamentalist pagans, such as Christians, and more importantly for you, ultra-hate-mongering-orthodox Jews. The laws these people live by were tried and trusted rules to keep a society functioning 500, 800, 1200 years ago.
They (an application of the THEM you decry) refuse to engage science, philosophy and the collectively gained experience of HUMANDKIND and thereby are STUCK.
What to do about it? I am in favor of next to nothing. This comes from a combination of being a Jew and a Gay. The Jew in me says, life sucks, people will always hate me because I am a Jew, no matter what I do, so fuck them. Transitively, I apply this same thought to being gay, fuck them.
April 22nd, 2007 at 1:40 am
Net, I agree with you that some differences are good between States in the US. However, I feel that the “market force based population movement” idea you describe is elitist. It’s like saying, “We don’t like you here, go live in this ghetto where your numbers are great enough to afford some protections.”
Gay boys and girls should be able to walk down any Main Street USA and hold hand without fear of bodily harm. Love is not a provocation.
I think that there is a difference between being “hate fueled” and being so convinced that you’re right that you force your will on others.
April 22nd, 2007 at 10:48 am
HI John,
I agree with your overall message. That the divide us/them does us more harm than good.
And that it’s not all black/white as we think it is. That even in islamic cultures there are gradations and differences.
I just wanted to comment on that specific article.
If your upcoming post centers around the idea that “the problem isn’t about being gay per se but rather the disruption of social norms and male-centered power structure”, well I can only say that you’re right.
Anyhow @ Net. Muslim law and Muslim nations aren’t hate fuelled per se. Again, you use the same words as the orthodox muslims (or any other religion actually) do when they protest against secularism. In their eyes that is plain hatred against everything human and godly.
It’s just that the ruling clerics are totally blind for everything else thats happening around them. They operate as there is nothing else than the word of God and his prophets.
And also, engaging science, philosophy and the collective experience of humankind doesn’t always need to favorable results. They’re mere tools that can be used for every purpose.
April 23rd, 2007 at 11:28 am
I am elitist. I agree
Your whole premise only works if the gays are victims and have nothing to offer society. Since we do, we are not moving to the ghetto when we move to gay friendly places, we are establishing a concentration of talent that has viability. Do you see the difference in intent and language? Instead of thinking we are being FORCED to moved to NYC to live as gays, I think of it as fuck you Maine, you aren’t tolerant, then you loose out on me and all my abilities. And every time I read about how badly they want young professional to stay after school in my hometown newspaper I just laugh and think - you got what you asked for: you were so afraid of change and STUCK now the world has moved along.
The difference is am I a victim of the society I live in or am I going to be part of the society I live in. Sometimes where you live might be close and you should stay and fight, bust most of the time, it is shit and you need to leave it to decompose.
Zionism and gay flight to the city have a heck of a lot in common…ponder that will ya!!!!
You mistake me, I am a reasonably observant Jew - lay tefillin, go to services 4+ times a week, read the talmud even. I know a bit about Jewness, but I also went to college and have a degree in zoology & neuroscience and & philosophy. This allows me to rationalize through what I read and what I am taught. Does the Amidah give me some great advice on how to run my day, yes, read it and THINK about what is says and tell me no. But when I read many other anachronistic passages I spend the time thinking what this means to me in 2007. I only say this because I am well aware the power of these things, in fact I draw much from them.